On June 4, 1999, I was invited to
speak to the Internet's busiest BDSM/fetish
chat-group, #thetriad.
Over 200 kinky
people assembled to grill me
about my work, my personal life
and the world of SM in general.
Here is a (lightly edited) transcript
of the conference.

p.s.: I didn't catch all the
typos, so be prepared for some gaffes.

GGB LIVE on #thetriad

(Deschain) She has arrived

(aislinn) SHE'S HERE!!!!!!

(aislinn) * aislinn grins please give her a moment to get settled...she'll be right with us

(aislinn) welcome GloryB, Ma`am :)

(Deschain) Hello Glory

(GloryB) Sorry for being LATE!!!

(Deschain) glad you could join us :)

(Deschain) I'd like you to know, 200 +- people have been patiently awaiting your arrival, Glory :)

(GloryB) OH MY MY!!!!

(GloryB) This may be the first time in my life that I grovel in public!!!

* aislinn smiles

(Deschain) Glory, if you'd so kindly accept my DCC I can help you out

(GloryB) Thank you, Deschain. :-)

(Deschain) Give me just a few minutes to let Glory know how we'll be handling things tonight, then we will begin posting your questions. I will call for questions at the appropriate time.

(Deschain) We welcome Gloria to the largest net of this type!

(Deschain) With no further ado and lots of applause I'd like to thank you all again for coming tonight and for being so patient. At this time... I'd like to introduce poet, author and all around great lady, Gloria Brame.

(Deschain) er make that "Lady"

(Deschain) Glory, it's all yours

(GloryB) Thanks, Deschain!

(GloryB) First, again, sorry to keep you all waiting.

(GloryB) That was so nonconsensual of me (slapping own wrist) but I am delighted to be here and ready to answer any and all questions you might have.

(GloryB) For some reason the moderator also thought I might be interested in plugging my own work (gasp), but I think I'll save that for the end of the chat on the assumption that some of you have BURNING questions!

* Deschain chuckles


(LdyErin #thetriad -> *perk* plug?

(Deschain) (KnightMan> #thetriad -> Gloria... how long have you been in the lifestyle now.

(GloryB) "In the lifestyle" is always a tricky question since I had some SM experiences long before I knew they WERE SM experiences! So I tend to date my involvement in the lifestyle from 1986, which is when I first realized. that "oh my God, I AM a pervert! yippee!" and began attending clubs, getting into leather, etc.

(GloryB) The next question which was just sent to me is whether DOMINA is fiction or based on RL....

(GloryB) Let me clear this up right away: I do not have 12 slaves living in my dungeon. At least not YET. :-)

* Deschain sits back and lets the Lady go, seeing she's handling it nicely :)

(GloryB) The book incorporates some of my real experiences, my knowledge (I hope *g*) of D&S; mindset, and the inner conflicts some malesubs experience. And it has a generous dollop of my own private fantasy about building an SM utopia for myself.

(`falcon```> #thetriad -> what do you think about John Norman's GOR and trying to apply to real life D/s Glory?

(Damian_Nightwind> #thetriad -> If the other questioner doesn't re-ask about Gor, I too would be interested in hearing her opinion on the Gor phenomenon.

(GloryB) Moving on to John Norman...*g*....

* Deschain grins

(Deschain) one of my favorite subjects to ramble about :)

(GloryB) This is personal opinion, obviously but I don't believe that people who try to shape relationships according to models in fiction books are ever going to find long-term happiness because people are usually infinitely more complex than fictional characters.

(OsRattleGoddess> #thetriad -> cheers loudly!!!!!!

(GloryB) I know people will disagree with me, but I feel the same way about folks who try to live up to The Story of O...

(Deschain) looks like at least one person agrees with you, Glory

(GloryB) I mean....who took out the garbage in O?

* aislinn chuckles

(GloryB) Who went to work 9-5?

(GloryB) Whose drippy-nosed child just came screaming into the bedroom as someone was being tied to a cross? :-)

(ladylove{L}> #thetriad -> yea

(Per{jen_nifer}> #thetriad -> applauds.....

(eliana> #thetriad -> more than one....YAY!!!

(sara{J}> #thetriad -> hahahahahaha

(LdyErin> #thetriad -> ^5 Glory!!!!

(babydoll> #thetriad -> I do too

(GloryB) Neither Norman or Reage deal with these simple realities. And I've seen potentially good SM relationships fall apart because the people involved couldn't handle such ordinary mundane realities.

(GloryB) So that's my opinion. Fuck the fiction. Reality's better anyway. :-)

* Deschain laughs out loud

(GloryB) (Of course, no slight intended to my OWN fiction...heheheh)

* aislinn grins

(GloryB) My apologies if anyone was offended, btw.

(GloryB) I do believe you can, in role-play, do whatever you like as long as you remember it's role-play. (Which is more or less, how I see the GOR stuff. Cool for roleplay.)

(GloryB) I think the next question was about DifLove?

(GloryB) Someone asked how it was accepted when first published?

(MastrCary> #thetriad -> Gloria, how was "Different Loving" accepted when first published?

(laura{H}> #thetriad -> could u give a little insight into what prompted u to write the book Different Loving?

(GloryB) There was an interesting kind of schizophrenia when DifLove came out. On one hand, the media were intrigued, on the other they were afraid to write about it. So, for example, none of the big print media would review us. On the other hand, the Wall Street Journal called up... three times to get more copies because the comps we sent them... kept mysteriously "disappearing" at their office. :-)

* Deschain notes "comps=complimentary copies given to the media" (for the uninitiated :)


(GloryB) Everyone was a bit afraid of us....a few treated me and Will like we would come in dressed in leather and chains and kidnap all the nubile teens in the room. :-) (Ah...what a fantasy life these vanillas lead!) Fortunately, the people behind the book at Random House....

(Deschain) you say that like it's a bad thing, Glory *g*

(GloryB) believed in what we had to say, and did their best to promote us.

(GloryB) The attitude towards kinky sex has REALLY changed since then. As witnessed by all the zillions of sensational little articles that come out now on the "mainstreaming" of SM.


(MastrCary> #thetriad -> FYI Glory, DL was the first book on topic that I read.... THanks... *g*

(chryssa> #thetriad -> could it be that the media was reluctant to review because they really had nothing to compare it to?

(GloryB) Chryssa, they were really afraid of offending the public. Also--the fact is that people are embarrassed by sex... kinky or straight, they just can't talk about sex....

(GloryB) without snickering or blushing. I believe that in many cases it was simply their OWN personal inhibitions that made them so terrified of letting us speak plainly about SM.

(elle`> #thetriad -> Could we get a short synopsis of Domina , Please :)

(Deschain) Z, I think we're going to save Domina for later..

* Z smiles


(lady^sin[LJ]> #thetriad -> Ma'am, are you married, and if so, is your husband into the lifestyle with you?

(GloryB) I will stay late tonight, and will gladly discuss Domina toward the end.

(GloryB) Ah! Thanks, Deschain.

(GloryB) Yes, Will Brame and I have been married for 10 years. We met when he joined the SM support group I was running. on Compuserve. I founded it in 1987, he joined in 1988, and we got married in 1989. He is an SMer for sure. Which is why I snatched him up, the poor thing. :-)

(GloryB) Over the years, our relationship has evolved quite a it. We tried switching early on but were not too successful with it. We are both "total power exchange" types and switching didn't feel real enough. So we have an open marriage now, and each pursues outside relationships. I have a slave and so does he.

(GloryB) At home, we both submit to our dog. ;-)

(Katie> #thetriad -> gasps at the thought of Glory being a switch <--- heh

(GloryB) Yes, it's a gruesome thought, isn't it, Katie? LOL.


(sara{J}> #thetriad -> Glory - 24/7 relationships ... are they possible? so much is heard of them, but can they work given the "mundane realities"

(GloryB) sara, in my view: YES ABSOLUTELY YES. They can and do work.

* aislinn smiles widely

(aislinn) they sure do :)

(GloryB) But they cannot (and will not) work when they are modeled on fictional relationships or on fantasies. (GloryB) BOTH partners have to be mature enough to accept...

(Deschain) aislinn, be obscene and not heard, girl :)

(aislinn) yes Master :)

(GloryB) that there will be times and circumstances when you can't possibly fulfill the "fantasy" of SM lifestyle. For example, I know this may be heresy, but I've been known to wash the occasional dish and cook the occasional meal. :-)


(babydoll{V}> #thetriad -> say it ain't so Ms!!

(GloryB) LOL! I'm afraid it is.

(GloryB) And I'd like to point out--for those who may think that doms are more likely than subs to set unrealistic goals for a 24/7--that subs are just as likely to rebel when the dom isn't the ultimate mind-reader/god. Many subs form THEIR ideas about doms out of the fiction too.

(LdyErin> #thetriad -> wonders if that's like the admonishment that no one should dom/me until they've subbed.. to 'see what it's like' lol

(GloryB) They can't hang on to the reality of the power exchange if they see their dom as a real person.


(zara> #thetriad -> Gloria, in all your interviews with people, what is the toughest or most difficult situation that you have some across?

(GloryB) Well, I feel that the toughest problem is really the most common one, which is what to do when you are already married but your spouse is vanilla. There is simply no easy answer there. Millions of people suffer very deeply in marriages. To me that is a large-scale tragedy for SMers.


(Yank> #thetriad -> Jealousy in a submissive, how do you handle that in reality?

(GloryB) Yank, could you expand? Jealousy over what? Over a dom/me choosing to have more than one slave?

(Deschain) Yank... can you expand on your question please?

(Yank> #thetriad -> a submissive being jealous of other submissives or potential submissives

(Deschain) ah... thank you :)

(GloryB) Ah. Well, Yank, I believe that this is something which should be discussed and negotiated before a slave makes a permanent commitment. I believe a slave should know what s/he is getting into. Many dom/mes (myself included) insist on non-monogamy for ourselves.

(GloryB) Of course, a sub may be able to accept that in theory only to discover, down the road, that he or she isn't cut out for it and that it is painful to see the dom with other partners. I see this as a relationship issue, not just an SM issue. I don't believe a dom/me should declare, by fiat, that a sub MUST accept the situation. Instead, I think the dom/me has to work with the sub either to help him/her get past the... jealousy or, if that fails, to decide whether their relationship is right for them both. In other words, some doms... might be willing to give up outside relationships for the sake of being with a slave they love. But if they can't or simply don't want to, it is unfair to force a sub to accept a situation which genuinely hurts or depresses him/her.

(dallas> #thetriad -> thank you, Gloria!

(GloryB) When I start relationships, I try to be crystal clear that I will never be monogamous. The potential slave knows this from the outset. I monitor jealousies and talk to them if I think or sense they're having a problem. And I would try to end the relationship, gently and lovingly if I thought my being who I am, and doing as I please was a source of unhappiness for them. To me that goes against the whole point of doing SM, which is to enhance pleasure in life.

(GloryB) Deschain? Next victim, please. :-)

(Kinky^> #thetriad -> Hi, Gloria, just now getting to the middle of your book, -Different Loving- I like it lots. I'm wondering if you can recommend a good book about how to handle/whether to hide the lifestyle when you have children

* aislinn smiles

(aislinn) good question :)

(GloryB) Kinky, as best I know there IS no book out there yet which...

(GloryB) addresses this topic, or other issues which confront our daily problems. But the reason I say "yet" is because my next book does. :-)

(GloryB) I just finished a BIG new book for Simon & Schuster titled "COME HITHER: A COMMON SENSE GUIDE TO KINKY SEX"...

(Scri{b}e`> #thetriad -> Gloria, I hope there are no HNG's reading this, you have just presented them with an *out*. Please let the submissives know they have a choice in the matter. <----- HNG is a horny net geek (player)

(GloryB) and it is devoted to precisely these kinds of issues and questions.

(GloryB) Scribe--a- choice in what matter? (confused>

(zara> #thetriad -> yeah!!!

(kkholly{Kc}> #thetriad -> WOW KEWL

(laura{H}> #thetriad -> and when is it due out?

(Deschain) I think he means that a sub *online* always has an out

(Deschain) ie: turning off the computer :)

(GloryB) Laura, it is scheduled to come out Valentine's Day 2000.

(lathenia`> #thetriad -> "(GloryB) enhance pleasure in life."...thank You very much, Ma'am, you answered a question, gave me a good line for friends and family, and basically made my night :)

(GloryB) Awww. Thanks, Lathenia. :-)

(Deschain) ok, that leads to another good question Glory


(demuremiss> #thetriad -> I had asked a question earlier... > How hard was it for you to get published as far as bdsm, for the first time? Any advice to others who are considering it?

(GloryB) I think it's kind of clear, in a common sense way, that if a sub "bales" on-line when things get tough, that sub does not merit a serious dom's attention. Either you're in this all the way or you're not. Maybe I'm just a jaded old dominatrix, but that's how I see it.

(Deschain) I believe the comment regarded Horny Net Geeks, not Doms :)

(GloryB) OH! HNG's?? I say this with all Dommely dignity: icky poo!

(Deschain) LOL

(GloryB) Deschain...please torture me with another question.

(Ms|-|eaVen> #thetriad -> lol


(demuremiss> #thetriad -> I had asked a question earlier... > How hard was it for you to get published as far as bdsm, for the first time? Any advice to others who are considering it?

(sinja> #thetriad -> lol

* Deschain smiles, feeling honored to have been asked to torture Glory :)

(GloryB) Getting DifLove published took a lot of sweat and dedication....

(there are so many questions and thank you for that! Not all will be answered but thank you for asking them!)

(GloryB) Getting any kind of a book published right now, in this environment is pretty tough. The main thing is persistence. You have to keep sending the book out again and again. We sent DifLove to 21 publishers before we got one who had the nerve to print it. We would have kept sending it around until we'd hit every possible publisher. Only then would we have quit trying.

(GloryB) My advice to aspiring authors is simply: don't give up. If you really want to see your work in print, do whatever you must to keep your dream alive. Note: for more advice on publishing erotica, read EROTIC FICTION: A WRITER'S PERSPECTIVE by Ray Girvan, available on this site.

(GloryB) With DOMINA, I had a contract from Daedalus Publishing, so I felt fairly secure...but then, just as the book was ready to go to press, Daedalus had to suspend operations because of financial problems. My agent then told me the book was far too wild for any mainstream press. No editor would even read it; it was too hardcore. So I self-published it. Maybe one day someone will pick it up but I am committed to seeing my work in print. Whether or not the mainstream condones it.

(aislinn) DOMINA was mesmerizing...i couldn't stop reading it once i started...

(GloryB) Thank you, aislinn! What a lovely compliment! :-)


(^saryna{Grth}> #thetriad -> Glory: What do you believe is the key element/factor in a truly profound and long term D/s relationship?

(aislinn) you're welcome, Ma`am :)

(GloryB) Saryna, I can answer that in one word: TRUST

(aislinn) i hope there's a sequel coming one day *g*

(GloryB) Trust is the foundation for a solid SM relationship.

(GloryB) Trust is about a lot more than knowing the dom won't hurt the sub in ways the sub doesn't want to be hurt.

(GloryB) Trust embraces a whole universe of important issues.

(GloryB) But I would say, in all the relationships I've seen what marks the difference between a genuinely happy, positive long-term D&S; relationship and ones which fall apart or limp along is TRUST. The most beautiful 5-letter word known to perverts. (Next to "whips") :-)

(Z) Haaaa

* Deschain laughs

(GloryB) Folks, just to let you midnight, I've got to retreat and head for AOL, where I run a regular Friday night chat. If any of you have AOL, you're welcome to follow. :-)

(Deschain) we'll post a couple more questions for Glory, then we'll let her do what she came to do

(GloryB) Sounds good, Deschain!

(Deschain) (Kinky^> #thetriad -> GloryB: I've noticed that the BDSM "look" etc, is becoming faddish. What do you think about this?? I think most folks are bored and desensitized by the media. But it's sort of scary, because I am seeing so many treating it as a role playing game rather than taking it seriously. Any thoughts about this?

(GloryB) BDSM *has* become very trendy and this has created a lot of problems in the Scene because so many utterly clueless newbies are wandering in, doing damage. That is indeed scary.

(GloryB) 13 yrs. ago when I first entered the Scene, almost everyone in it was very much for real. Now it's hard at times to separate the day-trippers from the lifestylers.

(GloryB) It isn't ALL bad, though, because it has forced SM out of the shadows and I think/hope more and more people are realizing that SMers aren't a little fringe cult of criminals but are regular, normal people for the most part, with real lives...

(GloryB) What I suspect is that eventually SM will become less trendy but, I hope, that the positives will remain, i.e., that people won't be quite as shocked by it as they once were.

(GloryB) I can't predict the future though.

(GloryB) There is always the chance that, at some point, some politicians will suddenly take us up as their cause and go after us...

* Deschain chuckles

(Deschain) GloryB for President!

(GloryB) what amazes me is that the SM Scene has indeed been able to grow...

(GloryB) to this level without there being even more busts and harassment...

(GloryB) from legal agencies.

(GloryB) Perhaps that's because so many of us are lawyers & judges. LOL!

(GloryB) Deschain, how's about 1 more question, and then...

(Deschain) ok, one last question for Glory

(GloryB) I'll answer any queries on DOMINA, DIFLOVE or the new book?

(Deschain) and folks, I'm sorry if your questions didn't all get asked

(Deschain) we had literally hundreds of questions

(GloryB) I'd also like to apologize one more time for arriving so late.


(toy`J> #thetriad -> How much effect has the Net had on the 'mainstreaming' of SM, in your opinion, Glory?

Maybe we can get her back to the largest net of BDSMers for the rest of the questions!

(GloryB) Oh, toy! The effect has been MONUMENTAL!!!!

(GloryB) I honestly don't believe the Scene would be 1/5th as large right now if not for the Net.

(GloryB) I hate to sound like the old fart that I am....(cough cough) but there really was a time when people more or less knew everyone else. There were not a whole lot of us who were out.

(GloryB) Now, my goodness, there are millions of people talking about and doing SM every day--and most of that, I believe, is on-line. It's pretty awesome.

(GloryB) God bless the Internet. ;-)

(aislinn) amen :)

(Deschain) and with that

(Deschain) Glory, plug away

(GloryB) Deschain, was that our last official open question?

* Deschain smiles

(GloryB) AH! Okay!

(Deschain) that was it

(Deschain) oh

(Deschain) one more... an easy, short one

(GloryB) Well, I now have free rein to shamelessly promote myself...:-)

(GloryB) Oh, sure, go ahead.

(Deschain) a lot of people were asking the name of your room on AOL

(Deschain) can you give them that?

(GloryB) (Also, folks, yes, I would gladly come back another time...

(GloryB) to answer more questions!)

(GloryB) Sure thing, Deschain.

(Deschain) I'll be in touch to work that out, Glory :)

GloryB now you know where we are... You say the word and we will come. :-)

(GloryB) To find me on AOL, all you have to do is type Keyword: GloryB

(GloryB) My face will eerily pop up on your screen and you can follow the hotlinks to my chat room. We meet every Friday night at midnight est. Not every sadomasochist has a keyword on AOL. ;-) (Takes a special kind of pervert for that...but, no, I did NOT spank Steve Case)

(Katie> #thetriad -> Glory is gorgeous

(LdyErin> #thetriad -> Thanks, Glory :)

(Deschain) not every sadomasochist has their own web server, either

* Deschain smiles

(Z) Haaaa

(Deschain) you may want to give that URL also

(GloryB) (though I wouldn't mind thrashing Bill Gates *g*)

(Z) but we all have BDSMnet!!!!!!!

(GloryB) Okay! Self-promotion time? Yay! ;-)

(GloryB) First, I invite all to visit my website....


(GloryB) I've got hundreds of pages of info on all aspects of SM including transcripts of all my AOL chats, advice, one of the biggest and most comprehensive kinky links guide on the Net, a kinky bookstore...dozens of articles, a kinky erotica library...

(Deschain) (the links guide is great)

(Deschain) (so is the bookstore :)

(GloryB) and naturally it's all free.

(GloryB) Also a gallery of original SM art and lots of pix of you know who. ;-)

(Deschain) there's even a picture of the dog she mentioned earlier

(GloryB) Oh yes! Pix of my precious puppy!

(GloryB) Also of my garden. :-)

(GloryB) Also Jon Jacobs runs a mini-site "Submissive Women Speak" with his 24/7 slave, Polly aimed at sub women .

(toy`J> #thetriad -> mentions that Domina and Diff Loving are both on

(Deschain) and, may I say, a rather delicious pic of the Domme herself, right on the first page :)

(GloryB) Thank you, Deschain. Not like I'd bare my tits to draw anyone in or anything. ;-)

(GloryB) On the DifLove part of the site, you can read interviews from the book on the Domina part of the site, I've got pix of myself plus a chapter free for downloading/reading..

(GloryB) And, coming this year, I will be creating yet another mini-site server devoted to COME HITHER.

(GloryB) I've also recently begun donating pages to worthwhile SM causes...


(notme> #thetriad -> someone mentioned earlier buying the text for download?

(GloryB) and people. For example, an atty named Rumpoule now has a page offering free legal advice on BDSM-related issues.

(GloryB) And the NLA's Statement on Domestic Violence and SM is on my site.

(GloryB) So there are tons of goodies for the grabbing.

(GloryB) Deschain, DOMINA and DIFLOVE are both for sale on Amazon.Com...

(GloryB) I've got links direct to those pages on my site...

(GloryB) You can also buy DOMINA direct from the publisher at a big discount (I think it's 40% off cover price)...

(GloryB) AND you can download a digital version in PDF format for $6 again, direct from the publisher (nowhere else).

(Deschain) Will there be a sequel to DOMINA, Glory?

* aislinn perks and smiles

(Deschain) which, btw, I loved :)

(GloryB) Deschain, that depends on whether there seems to be enough interest in the first one. I did write it with the intent of creating sequels. Obviously, I will have to let readers know whether Arden is ever accepted back into Domina's household. :-)

(aislinn) i'm dying to find out how Arden's new year begins :)

(Deschain) we have to know...

(GloryB) Hehehehe. My lips are sealed.

(babydoll{V}> #thetriad -> smiles.....thank You Ms Glory, for a most enjoyable evening...i look forward to reading Your books!! (get em at

(Deschain) you could get really ambitious and do 25 novels... like Norman :)

(GloryB) OH GAWD!!!! LOL!

(GloryB) Well, folks, this has been DELIGHTFUL!

(Deschain) and of course, look for the next book around Christmas?

(GloryB) What an amazing group of folks here!!! I am truly honored.

(Scri{b}e`> #thetriad -> We thank you Gloria, a truly splendid evening.

(Z) You must return GloryB

(GloryB) Deschain, yes, look for the next one...or just drop by my...

(Deschain) Glory, we're honored you came to visit us

(GloryB) site every now and then....

(Deschain) and glad you finally showed up :)

(GloryB) I will be uploading tons of info on the new one by year's end.

(GloryB) Ouch, Deschain! LOL!

(GloryB) Next time I will be on time!!

(aislinn) thank You for this wonderful visit, Ma`'s been such an incredible evening :)

(Deschain) I'd like to thank everyone for coming tonight

(Z) You are the first celebrity to speak publicly like this on this net... did you know there was such a gathering of like- minded people on one net?

(GloryB) Folks, thank you again! Those with AOL, please feel free to come by my room there.

(Deschain) we'll be sure to let you know when Glory will be visiting again

(GloryB) Deschain, I had no idea there was so HUGE a group here!



(Z) (spread the word Glory!!!)

(GloryB) Yes, Deschain and I will set up another date. :-)

(GloryB) Will do, Z!

(GloryB) This is awesome!

(Deschain) Thanks again Glory

(GloryB) And, now, I must bid you all fond farewell, with big kisses.

(GloryB) Thank you for being here, guys! I am truly honored.

(Z) Good night Gloria :-)

(aislinn) wow

(aislinn) what else is there to say

(aislinn) :)

(toy`J> YAyyyyyyyyyyy

(sara{J}> thanks ops :)))))


If you'd like to join this group, you can find them via or; their room is #thetriad. The group's description states: #thetriad is devoted to B&D;, D/s, and SM, and is a venue for discussion, scening, and socializing among the online BDSM community.




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Dr. Gloria G. Brame
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