Craig's wicked thread ("Marina's Valentine....") inspired me to post this! With his gracefully EVIL message, he has created a deliciously mammoth mindfuck for Marina to brood over. The humiliation of finding his message on the Board...of reading the responses and all the jokes being made at her expense...and all we callous-hearted sadists cheering Craig on to do his worst! POOOOOOOR MARINA!!

Is Marina in subbie heaven or WHAT? :-)

(Well, she may not feel that way right now...but in years to come...we can only hope she will look back on this sordid public episode of her life and...DRIP <eg>)

So I ask you all: do you like mindfucks? How much do you like them? Subs, do you like when a dominant crawls inside your mind and plays you like a helpless little doll? Doms, do you plan out mindfucks or is it more a matter of spontaneous depravity? What makes a mindfuck so exciting? Is it the surrender (or control), or the unpredictability...or other things?

Glory

What can I say about mindfucks? Everything I learned about creating passion, I learned from Hannibal Lector.

Physical sex last minutes, but a mindfuck can be stretched out over weeks. The brain is the ultimate erogenous zone, and the mindfuck is the most powerful weapon in the arsenal of seduction. Great and dark things that can be acomplished just by using the voice.

Nightheron

gosh, for me the mindfuck is the beginning and end of our relationship. He crawls into my mind and finds the thing that is ticking away like a timebomb that he knows will make me wet and more eager then a cat in a box with a mouse. I am just like how you stated above Gloria - I act or feel like I hate it and then when he chuckles and says "you love it and you know it, look your blushing" , then touches me and I am dripping - proves he hit the hot button - he does it all the time, especially when he knows I need it most. This in my opinion is where he has the most control, I control only one thing, his desire or excitement - his cock isn't a Dom - but his mind is where it starts and ends

to finish my post: Its the unpredictability, its the unknown - its the total surrender to trust him to get into my mind and find those things that do this to me. I dont know about too many submissives or maybe its a female trait, but my pussy and mind are completely connected and respond to each other as if they were one.

Geez Glory .... you want to see my ego go right out of control? (Thanks for the nice words of encouragement though!).

I think nightheron hit it square on the head ... the great thing about a mindfuck is that there's no limit to where a few words or a simple gesture can take you. Live to be 100 and you'll never exhaust the possibilities, whether you sit around thinking them up, or they result from "sponaneous depravity" (gawd I love that term).

Hi All .........

Interesting topic.

It continues to amaze me that the very same or very similar situations, experiences, and words can trigger horrendous negative reactions and feelings. That those "negatives" can be redirected to be positive with a bit of patience, understanding, and genuine care and concern from one who "knows" both themselves and this lifestyle still has me whirling like a leaf in a windstorm.

Since I have learned first hand the power of the "mindfuck", and NOT in a positive way, one can imagine my relief when I began to see that the very things that could evoke the most intense fear and despair were also capable of doing the reverse.

How very wonderful and freeing this discovery was for me. As a matter of fact, that special "one" that I am seeking will probably be able to take the darkest secrets of my past and reassemble them into a unique and most wondrous work of art ... that will be me "reborn."

Oh how I look forward to the transition that a good "minkfuck" will encourage. <g>

Storm

Dr Glory and boardsters,
   What a great topic!! In my humble opinion, the mindfuck, the mental aspects of BDSM, are what set it so far apart from the vanilla world. Let me ask you sceners, how often do you replay vanilla sex in your head?? and if you have had a good scene, how often do you replay that in your head?? To me, EVERYTHING about a scene, even the physical aspects..end up being psychological. Being restrained, my head is going, "oh, you have no control at all now!" Everything that occurs after that, is a further giving up of control and a giving of submission. More to think about. <<<fanning myself>>

 ANYWAYS....yes, so much mileage can be gained on just a simple hint, suggestion, allegation, etc. What is even funnier is the times things will pop into my head, I don't know if it is the same for all the subbies out there in subbie land, but I would venture to say yes. Sitting at work, in an idle moment, and BING, there I go, thinking again. Talking with my mother on the phone even, and BING. There I go again. If my co-workers or Mother even knew what I was really thinking!!
  A curious friend was recently asking me what it was about the scene that attracts me to it, how can I stand pain..etc..etc.. I am a masochist, being somewhat new to the scene, I don't know how much, but I really don't think it is the pain that I enjoy so much as the message it conveys. Every stroke, clamping, touch, is saying "submit". And it continues to play in my head well afterward, over and over....always getting a reaction, drawing an emotion.... like a good song.

  A song that after infinite plays, can never get old.
I think that is a song we can all listen to.

   diana

I agree with your entire post diana!

I've been doing a lot of wondering about the whole mindfuck concept, and in particular how people can have it go on for so long. Then it hit me BAM! I'm experiencing one right now. My husband is away and will not be back for another few months. We were having a discussion on the phone of our limits, etc and there is one particular thing that I just have the hardest time with - it's so ridiculous I can't even mention it here w/o total embarassment - but it's something I absolutely hate and dread and of course he has to say oh you'll be doing that for me when I get home. :( Immediately I got that sick feeling in my stomach and he said it was just something he liked so I had to get over it. I said well, what if I don't want to get over it - and laughed a little. He said "Didn't ask."

That was three weeks ago. Have I thought of having to do this much? Only about 20x a day. Now....I retract all of my previous mindfuck questions.....having found myself totally......fucked lol

kay

Regular BDSM is physical. You buy the toys and learn how to use them. Think of it as, oh, golf: you get yourself some clubs and balls and practice on your swing.

Mindfucking is the mental part of the game. It can be done without the toys or with the toys.

To start, you need to study behavioral psychology. A general knowledge of Pavlov and B.F. Skinner is a good starting point. Also, you might want to look into hypnosis, interrogation techniques, and NLP. Finally, you have to listen to and get information from your sub. This is not always easy. Sometimes you have to conduct a formal interrogation.

I'll talk more about that next time. Fun fun fun.

Nightheron

Storm,

First, a warning: as I've said before, mindfucking is like a magic trick. Once you learn that the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz is merely just an aging carney with some special effects, the spell is broken and you can no longer regard him as something omnipotent.

When two people meet and feel the spark of romance, often the same thing happens. In their minds, the other person is perfect. The answer to all their prayers. If it's a good relationship, it will survive the first blast of romantic infatuation. It will grow in different directions based on trust, respect, mutual goals, etc.

If it's not a good relationship, they will feel horribly mislead. The other person was a phony, they'll say.

This is especially true in D&S relationships. Subs often want someone who is more than human. Someone God or Godesslike. Someone they don't just love, they worship. When they realize the object of their adoration is just a mortal, it can be traumatic.

So, step with caution. If what you want is to indulge in a fantasy where your dominant is a true master of men, then you may want to sever this thread right now. Some of the things I'm going to talk about might shatter your illusions. The other caution is that the tricks I'm going to discuss are not at all nice. Use them with care. There is a thin line between love and violent hate.

Anyhow, as discussed, before, most of the mindfucking that goes on happens in vanilla relationships. Often by people who don't even know what they're doing. Here is a simple example: women control men by promising them orgasms (or affection). Men control women by giving them orgasms (or affection) and then taking it away.

The mating instinct among men is so strong that women can control men by offering them simply the vague promise of sex. This is called '"prick teasing", but it can be very insidiously subtle. I know of plenty of women who have kept various men at their beck and call for years at time without ever having sex with them.

One the other hand, "clit teasing' is more complicated, for men. In order for a man to hook a woman, he has to not only have sex with her, but become her fantasy ideal lover and give her orgasms. If he can do this, then all he has to do is STOP having sex with her to control her. Orgasms release a chemical in the brain that's very much like an opiate. Cutting off the orgasms is like a pusher cutting off the supply of a drug to a junkie.

Much of the power of these scenarios comes from a thing called: "intermittant reinforcement". I'll get into that next time.

Nightheron

My dear Storm,

It is not up to you to presume when, how, or even why you should apologize to me. When I want you to
apologize, I will tell you so. I will also tell you HOW I want you to apologize, but you will have show proper humility to me before I will grant you that privilege. Understood?

Sometimes, it's best to learn while doing.

Nightheron

Storm,

I would be glad to converse with you on mindfucking or any other aspect of BDSM. If you want me to mentor you in any way, though, there will be some rules that you must follow at all times.

First, you shall always be ladylike, no matter what the subject matter of the discussion. You shall always preface a question with "please" and begin your reply to any answer from me with "thank you".

If I am to mentor you, you shall not address me by my alias "Nightheron". I do not want you to call me "Master", either. I'm not some horny newbie looking for a free blow-job. I regard mastering as an art and a sport and I am very cautious about who I choose to master. In these conversations, you should simply call me "Sir".

If you ask me a direct question, I will answer it as best I can. Naturally, I will never ask you for your real name, phone number, address, money, etc. That would be crass. However, some of the questions I shall ask you will be very personal and I will expect you to answer them promptly, truthfully, and without evasiveness.

I think these rules are simple and fair. If you wish to continue, you must say so quickly. I bore easily.

Nightheron

I am enjoying this thread immensely - I haven't ever asked for a mentor but know I could always use one. I just don't have time to devote to it - but then again ------might learn a ton about myself by just observing.

I would be glad to converse with you on mindfucking or any other aspect of BDSM

well not the mindfuck but tell me ..... do you think Dominance is a gift

and

why are there so many role playing Dominants out there?

Storm,

You have already neglected to use proper form.

I do not ask you to do this out of pretentiousness. You are a submissive and I am a dominant, and a mental line needs to be drawn. Our letters may lead to an actual friendship; however, it will always be a friendship based on dominance and submission.

I can converse with a dominant woman as an equal, but I can never do so in an online relationship with a sub. A dominant woman is one who has rejected millions of years of biological programming and thousands of years of social indoctrination. This takes courage, and I respect that. To come out as a submissive also takes some guts, but submissives must be handled differently.

A submissive must always be aware of their place. Talking with a submissive like a buddy only undermines the dynamics of a dominant/submissive relationship. If they are truely submissive and not just acting the part, they should show submission. Therefore, proper form must be used at all times.

Please resubmit your questions as I have directed you to do using "Sir", "Please", and "Thank you".

Nightheron

nightheron-

  You really had me going for a minute there- that was brilliant- you did the whole ignorant wannabe online jerk off thing perfectly.

   What a joker<g>.

Lawrence

Lawrence,

Don't jump to conclusions. I'm trying to make a point.

Nightheron

Nightheron,

You stated to Storm << Please resubmit your questions as I have directed you to do using "Sir", "Please", and "Thank you".>>

Night,
Respect is something EARNED. It isn't a given and isn't to be "demanded"
Also, just because someone doesn't use the term, "Sir" or "Ma'am" doesn't mean they have no respect for someone.
As far as a "Submissive knowing her place" - That place is with his/her Dominant. NOT every Dominant, especially those demanding respect.

Night, if you think demanding respect means someone respects you and is showing you respect - then you have mindfucked yourself.

Gloria, I DO Have my permission to use this, now as long as I have yours, Ma'am? <g>

"She Is A Submissive? She Doesn't Act Very Submissive"
Written by SteelSkys
January 7th, 2001

I was speaking with friend of mine earlier, in IM's.
We were just chatting about some different things and we somehow got on the topic of a Domme making the comment,
"She's a Submissive, but She doesn't Act very Submissive."
My response to that was...
If that Submissive is not that Domme's Submissive, how in the hell could a Domme say that?
To me, the Domme can't.
If she is not, or has never been involved with that Submissive, she has no way of knowing anything about the Submissive side of that Sub.
And if Domme thinks that referring to someone as Ma'am, Sir;
Bowing to every Domme that enters a room, makes someone a Submissive...
Then in my eyes, that Domme needs do more studying and learn a little more about a Submissive.

As a Submissive myself, I can show respect to any Dominant I wish, simply by being nice.

I feel a Domme, or the Domme's I know, that is not a Submissive's Domme/Mistress... would much rather earn the respect from that Submissive and be grateful that the Submissive does respect you enough to say yes Ma'am, No Ma'am and such.
Afterall, isn't a meaningful, "yes Ma'am" better than a "yes Ma'am" that is unmeaningful?
If the Submissive doesn't know a Domme and she doesn't belong to that Domme, why would she Act Submissive to that person?
If I ever grow up and become a Domme <grin>
I know for a fact, it would piss me right off, to find My Submissive Acting Submissive to some other Domme.
That would be a Big, No-No :)
There is a huge difference in being respectful to someone and Acting Submissive <grin>

Respect is not to be demanded...
Respect is something to be proud of earning, no matter what "title" you carry.

Acting Submissive is between the Submissive and her Domme. And her Submission belongs to her Domme, and not to anyone else.

So before someone thinks, "She can't be a Submissive because she doesn't act very Submissive"...
Unless you are her Domme, or have been her Domme, you wouldn't know.
<grin>

SteelSkys...

Storm,

There are so many that are into Ds Roleplay only. Never have been RT and may never be.
I know a woman who was only "online" but.. you couldn't have ASKED for a better "Dominant" she was wonderful and she knew her shit when it came to Ds.

Many times, people RP because it's the only resourse they have to let that part of them show.

Some are only "players" some are very serious about what they do.

Many start out into Ds Roleplaying and end up being wonderful Dominants/Submissives realtime :)

Although, online can never replace RT, still it can be respected, and be very real to the people involved and ya never know, where it will end up <g>

Steel.

Night,
If I misread what you were saying, please accept my apology.
Sometimes reading "type" can be mistaken

Steel

Sir (directed to Nighteron)
......
i am a very respectful as well as polite person and submissive who usually gives the benefit of the doubt and far too much power to all who i come in contact with ... be it on line ..... or in person.
i am also shy, timid and over run with insecurities.

The insecurities show their ugly face most often in the form of self doubt as to how i perceive things where i am concerned. How i should behave ... react .... respond and so forth.

Making no apologies, the fact remains that i tend to stay in the background until i feel a bit of emotional safety. Never has that been so evident as now that i am learning this lifestyle.

Someone who i respect their opinion said to me that "you may be a Novice to this lifestyle, but you are not a Novice to life." That statement is quiet true, but in many ways i am also a Novice to life where my perception of how i should expect to be treated is concerned.

i mean no disrespect what so ever Sir, but i am very confused by your recent comments. i was and am still interested in having some off the board discussions with you about your views of aspects of this lifestyle but i did not mean to infer that i was seeking a mentor. i also must have misunderstood your post for i thought that the title of Sir was reserved for that type of relationship. Obviously i was in error.

i will own up to the fact that i still am totally confused as to what is appropriate and what is not in this lifestyle.

Please explain to me why i am to be submissive to you if we have not agreed to a D/s type of relationship here. is it not more of an equal, respect based interaction that takes place under normal circumstances or have i missed something along the way.

Is it because i am a submissive and you a Dominant that precludes a casual exchange of thoughts and ideas in the arena of being simply "people" who share a set of beliefs?

Thank you for the time that you have taken thus far with regard to aspects of this lifestyle. i do hope that any misunderstandings will be worked out <smiling>

Storm

Night,

I see/hear what your doing, and its a role playing of sorts, to teach, guide and strengthen a friendship/mentor/student relationship of sorts, and Storm, your very quiet - is it because your not sure this is how you want to go about it? or ?????

I personally would not have a mentor mentor me in public, its a very personal thing, however, its a teaching vehicle for us all to see how it is done and how a submissive responds to the questions and requests the D puts before the Sub.

I love reading all the posts from all the Doms on this board, its the most intelligent open forum for me to learn from those who I am not involved with either by email or RT. I would love to hear from those who are on this board via email at any given time and would always respond to those I have read posts from up to this point. I do not avoid friendships, just advances of stupidity which I haven't seen yet.

I do enjoy all of you here and think of your words during my intense life off and on, and it really helps me keep myself in perspective, my life is crazy and the sanity here keeps my insainity of real life from destroying me.

Love Kate

To everyone,

No, I was not being a jerk. I was being a smartass.
There IS a difference. A slim one, I'll grant you, but a difference never the less.

To all who have read my postings on other parts of this board, I thought you would have noticed (by now) that I am just about the least serious person here. I was having a little bit of fun while trying to make a point. I've done this with others. Always very lightheartedly and with tongue planted firmly in cheek. Never had any problems before now. It's probably because the others I've joked around with have always been just as flamboyantly extroverted as myself. I'm afraid that I hadn't taken into account just how shy Storm is. For that, I sincerely and humbly apologize to her, it was never my intention to make her feel uncomfortable.

What I was trying to do, through a little online roleplaying was to give a few simple lessons in the techniques of mindfucking. That's all. The views expressed were not really my own except for two points: 1.) I do respect dominas for being bold enough to tackle sexuality on their own terms. 2.) I also think it takes a lot of guts for a woman to come out of the closet as a submissive. Considering the dangers they could face in trying to lead their lifestyle, I have to give them a lot of credit for bravery.

Storm, yes, I would be flattered to engage in some private e-mailings with you. You may drop the "Sir" business. Just relax and be yourself. However, you were very tardy in responding to my last posting and you simply must be punished for it. So, tonight, no fruit cup! (And if you don't get that joke, just ask Glory.)

Nightheron

Did the thread suddenly go from discussing a mindfuck to performing a mindfuck? Because maybe I have bought into one. Let me say first and foremost that I do agree that the mind is the biggest sexual organ in the body, and being able to manipulate it in this lifestyle is indeed one of the greatest thrills that can be experienced, regardless of which side of the fence you are one. However, when one attempts to manipulate someone else's mind for a purpose outside of what is considered to be SSC, then that person is not attempting to mindfuck their partner, simply to fuck them. By the way, both sides of that fence that I spoke of? The ground is level on both sides.
     Respect? damn right Steel, its earned, not demanded. I am Justin, that's the name my mother and father gave to me when I was born. Addressing me as Justin is just fine. I have been called worse and lived. I do not demand that anyone address me with an honorific, with the exception of my slave. For anyone to step forth and proclaim, especially on the net that "I am Dom you will respect me" is, IM*N*SHO doing a disservice to the group who identify as dominant as whole, as well pop up a huge red flag about the person making the demand. The subs be they male or female who have decided that I have earned their respect and address me as Sir, give unto me a huge honor. As to mentoring in public...where did that come from? Mentoring is best done someone who HAS earned your respect and admiration on the basis of what you know about that person for sure and damn real. Otherwise just go get the Mentoring On Tape. To hold oneself out as a mentor is one thing, to skirt the edge of demanding it, is certainly another.
    Storm, you own no one ANYTHING that they have not earned, with YOU being the judge of whether it is earned or not, and if so, YOU are entitled to decide (and this is certainly outside a collar) what the "prize" is for having earned it. The only person here who is deserving of an apology is Storm. I don't care what your resume says Night, that was way over the line. And this comes from one, whom you don't know in real time, or most likely anything about, but I AM as real as they come and I will be more than happy to provide references on request to you or anyone else who thinks they need them.

Justin

i hate to admit it because i really do have a life outside this board, but i have been mildly distressed by what i perceived as a small spat developing here. So after reading the posts this morning, i feel good about saying that i think all of you handled things so very well and maturely. Thorn, that was a gracious apology and explanation - thank you. i have to admit i really was puzzled about what was going on but had no idea what to say or ask. i find the lack of venom in the most recent posts, the simple straightforward expression of opinions, heartening. Thank you all.

Just had to get that off my chest. :)

Peace,
firebaby

lace just blinks.......several times

Ah, the opportunities and limitations of online communication...without that very vital context of the subtleties of nonverbal communication.

Good to see this moving towards clarity.

Raven

This is an older thread but one I would like to have some more discussion regarding. The mind fuck...I have experienced such and it is disturbing to say the least, especially if you are a submissive like me, who takes so much to heart and suffers from terminal insecurity and fear of abandonment.
Yes, I am aware that there are people who feel that a 'good' sub is loaded with self-esteem. Perhaps that is true for some, but not for me. Part of what makes me submissive is my seeking approval from another and when I have a really good mind fuck go down, it can be disheartening.
Does a really 'good' Dom give positive re-inforcement after a mindfuck to validate their submissive? How do other submissives handle that precious balancing act of maintaining their self-worth and value after a mindfuck, cuz as we all know, a Dom can be quite cruel *g*?
Also, how does one talk to their Dom about such an experience without taking away from the process of submission? Am I making any sense at all? Please bare with me everyone as I am new to the message boards and am looking for some answers...is that another name for 'validation'?...hmmmm
freski

<< Does a really 'good' Dom give positive re-inforcement after a mindfuck to validate their submissive? >>

I say, yup. Afterall, wouldn't you feel that would fall under the catagory of "aftercare"?

fix8ed?

i can talk about anything with my Master, Susan, whenever She tells me i may (Her live is really busy, so it's a scheduling thing).

whatever answers She wants to provide are completely up to Her.

i have overflowing self-esteem whenever She smiles at me.

i have none if Her gaze is empty and cold.

and after the completion of a mindfuck?

i say "a girl thanks you, Sir."

believe in your Master, completely, because in Her/Him there is an entire world, and an entire life of joy....

and whenever you are permitted to speak freely, always offer your insights as to how your Master may own you more fully (though She/He may already know them all, and more!).

a collar is freedom....

i have known my share of insecurity... most people never realize the depths of my lack of confidence... luckily my Husband/Master knows all the layers (even those most never uncover)... He also is a major Mindfuck specialist and enjoys the twists and turns that ensue... the thing that i notice is this... when i am having a good day and feeling good about myself (ie, i don't cringe when i look at myself in a full length mirror) i am usually pretty resilient to the effects of a fullblown mindfuck and recover without much aftercare.. however... when i am in that space that feel like i can do nothing right, the mindfuck can be a excruciating experience and the ability of my Master to care for me after such an experience is essential.. the one thing i find most helpful for us both is that i explain where i am emotionally when i feel myself falling victim to my raging case of insecurity... this does not necessarily mean there will be no mindfuck, because lets face it.. if Master is really in the mood for one, it will happen... but, it is done with careful attention to detail and when it appears i have reached my limit, He reels me in and comforts me (actually i think He enjoys this part as much as i do)...

as for the balancing act of maintaining self worth... hmmm... well i'll let ya know when i get that figured out...lol... but seriously, i do understand how important i am at all times with my Master and that has given me more strength and security than anything i have found so far...

just be honest and open and share yourself completely with your Dominant and He/She can do a much better job of controlling you in ways that build you up as opposed to tearing you down...

take care..
renee'

Thanks for the responses...I appreciate whatever input I can get.
Perhaps, I am lacking in the 'express your feelings' part and He may be lacking in the 'aftercare' part...these are issues which will have to be addressed, delicately.
I have much to think about, and have.
Again, thank you all for responding...any more input from others would be greatly appreciated.
Fix8ed

fix8ed

Oh goody. This thread has been started, again. More little dollies to play with. Heh heh heh...

Nightheron

From: Thorn4MyRose
To: fix8ed

You asked: <Also, how does one talk to their Dom about such an experience without taking away from the process of submission?>

A potential solution to this is through using a journal. If your dominant, for example, allows you to keep one in which you are permitted to enter ANY thought or feeling you have without judgment or fear of retribution, then it becomes a convenient, 'safe haven' of sorts to express your feelings openly yet still maintain any protocols you two would usually use.

There's an important balance of responsibility to such a strategy though. He must be true to his word and deed in permitting your open expression in the journal without giving you any reason to believe it might come back to haunt you. Otherwise, you'll hedge your comments in it and defeat the intent. On the other hand, you have to not abuse the tool by trying to manipulate the 'no retribution' aspect to avoid punishment by revealing some act to him there. The journal is for expressing your innermost feelings -- not an amnesty box for getting out of something you did improperly. Make sense?

There are many other benefits to the journal strategy that will become more obvious over an extended period of time, but I think the aspect discussed above relates specifically to your question. I hope it helps.

Be safe,
Thorn

Sir .......

You are so BAD ...... <g>

storm

Thorn, thank you for the advice on the journal. I have kept my own journal for many years and He has said He has no problem with me continuing to keep this private. However, He still needs to know what it is that is going on with me and since He is not a mind reader (although I sometimes wonder *g*), I need to be responsible and let Him know.
One thing I've found is that when all the mind fuck stuff goes down I kick into the 'old' tapes I've picked up through all my years of twisted vanilla relationships and wonder...is He serious or is He fucking with me? If He cares how can He be so cruel and such a prick?...oh wait, I like that part...damn this can be confusing...LOL
I guess what I am asking is How does one know if a Dom is just being a jackass (yes, I know, you're all perfect, and how dare I say such a thing!) as opposed to playing out some kind of mindfuck thing?
Also, I'd like to hear some of the ways in which others have experienced a mindfuck or done one to someone. 'Trade' secrets anyone?
Thanks all,
fix8ed

I entered this thread much to late...(puzzled look upon my face)
what in the hell is going on lol...confused about the mindfuck thing...I thought it was something totally different then what is going on here...someone heeeeeelllllllllp! lol

articles or anything would be helpful

watching close to this one for a while
(smiling sweetly)
or is that an evil grin (shrug)

*~Dawn~*

From: Thorn4MyRose
To: fix8ed

Trade secrets? Hmm. You may find it easier to get the secret recipe out of Colonel Sanders. <g>

Seriously, you hit the problem right on the tushy when you noted that you relate what you experience now to your old vanilla relationships. Yes, it's quite natural to fall back on experience. Yet disciplining yourself to leap beyond your past and realize that you're mixing apples and bananas when you try to apply vanilla standards to BDSM dynamics is one of the first steps in understanding how magnificent ANY of those dynamics are.

The paradoxes involved in BDSM as so amazingly exquisite. A 'nilla may look at ropes coiled about a woman's wrists and think 'captivity'. But a slave looks at the same thing and thinks 'freedom'. A 'nilla may view wearing a collar as 'being treated like an animal'. But a slave's heart fills with joy when that collar is buckled in place because she knows she 'belongs' like no other can. And a 'nilla will believe that someone playing a headgame is just an insecure, pompous ass. The slave knows it's just the love of her life demonstrating mastery over her...taking his pleasure from her...pushing her through the depths of her own mind.

How do you know if he's just being a jackass? That's easy. If you apply vanilla standards to his actions. (or if he says, "Hee haw.") ;-)

Be safe,
Thorn

Very funny Thorn...the heehaw thing...
I do like how you have clarified applying 'nilla' standards to BDSM relationships. I have been doing that a great deal as I have nothing else to go on really. Learning a whole new set of standards and applications can be confusing but I'm trying.
I appreciate everyones input very much.
Thanks,
Fix8ed

Thorn,

I would have to say that what you said was beautiful...and I appreciate you sharing those words in the clever way you presented them. It truely clairifys my thoughts now and makes more sence. Sometimes this lamb gets lost.

*~Dawn~*

All,

Mindfucking is the mental half of the BDSM game. It's the part that cuts deeper than the floggers could ever go. It's about crawling into the submissive's brain and playing with the wiring. After all, they always say that the biggest sex organ is the one located between the ears.
Learn to stimulate that, and you can have some real fun.

Most of it comes down to psychology. Not Freud or Jung, usually. But behavioralist psychology: Pavlov and B.F.Skinner.

Much of it has to do with leaving people with just enough information to hook them. Leaving them in a state excited anticipation.

Like I'm going to do now.

Be back.

Nightheron

fix8ed ......

Hello and welcome.

 "One thing I've found is that when all the mind fuck stuff goes down I kick into the 'old' tapes I've picked up through all my years of twisted vanilla relationships and wonder...is He serious or is He fucking with me? If He cares how can He be so cruel and such a prick?...oh wait, I like that part...damn this can be confusing...LOL "

i could not have said it better ....... and in many ways just that alone has blown my mind away.

For me ...... i now have no doubt that i am a submissive by nature ....... and that has been a curse as well as a joy. The submissive me has shown it's face all throughout my life ..... but i never connected any importance to it.

i have reacted most of the time from the submissive part of me but never really understood why or the consequences of doing that.

There is no doubt that i am extremely vulnerable ...... extremely easy to abuse ..... and still extremely confused.

Those tapes of the past send conflicting messages ..... and are played automatically.

i have been fortunate recently to have some understand and wisdom shared with me that has helped immensely. i am very grateful for that as it has helped to move me forward.

The rules ...... yes the rules ..... and the definitions. i now see that i need to make sure that i am talking and listening in the same language ..... and at times i know i am not.

Just recently i started another journal ..... but a bit different then many of my others. i write only about my thoughts on submissiveness ..... my feeling that are trigger by the nilla influence ....... and all of the ugly that is buried deep. Something that i had better make sure no one reads lol.

Good luck to you in your journey.

Storm

(Dr. Gloria? a girl doesn't know if this should be a "private" post to Storm, or publicly posted? a girl never wants to be inappropriate.)

Storm?

Master encourages me to write down simple things i feel, things i may not always say right away for fear of being repetitive (something that happens alot) - and i guess, sometimes, things i may want, but that i keep to myself because She always comes first.

it's not really a journal, because to someone who didn't understand me, it would probably seem incredibly disconnected (because i am - always just having the now, and never a past...), and in the fragments of concepts that i think in - almost never a whole sentence.

She came across it last night, and read it - and then gently hugged me - and said, "Dearest slave, I knew all these things the moment you felt them, but I saw you surrender to me past all these things - and I took you further and deeper because your complete need to be posessed always shines from you like a bright fire that has wings that flies free through the very core of the litle slave that you are.

"I must own you, even hurt you sometimes - and all you do is respond with joy - and my need to go further takes my breath away with incredible fury - and all you know how to do is beg for more!

"Never stop writing this, because I must always know absolutely that you are complete in me..."

Storm?

even though Master and i have been together for so many years, the hurts of the years from before we met are still with me a little - some 'nilla, some terribly ugly - and Master never goes to those places where any of that will replay. She always keeps building a new physical memory that patiently keeps erasing a little more of the ugly stuff, knowing that someday there will be nothing but Her.

believe that someday you will find your natural Master - and then your journal will be the guidebook to your very soul, and you'll surrender it joyfully.

lonliness will always be my enemy.

and that's when i find there is still a whisper from the automatic replay of the dark years.

and then She comes home - even if for just a little while - and all i know is joy.

She can be marvellously manipulative of me when She decides to take me on a mindfuck, but it always teaches me that i am and must remain completely - even instantly - flexible to Her slightest whim, wish, or command (so softly spoken, always).

i guess it would be hurtful if i ever paused to focus on myself - but all i ever feel is an intense excitement to simply obey and respond completely. it can be very difficult, and it can be very tiring - but She is focused on showing me Her power - and that never has 'nilla echoes....

it's one of the many ways i know that this is forever - and far beyond forever.

She always keeps building a new physical memory that patiently keeps erasing a little more of the ugly stuff, knowing that someday there will be nothing but Her.

- - - -

Trisha -- She's a Master who lives the honor. All best to you both. <bows & curtsies*>

Thaien

*Not* ribbons and cutesies . . .

Storm (and all else too), Thank you for your words of encouragement and understanding. I can relate to what you said very well.
I have been exposed to this lifestyle in varing degrees over the last 10yrs but I have never been involved in an openly Dom/sub relationship before, with all the mental play included.
The mental aspects have taken me by surprise, to my delight and dismay. I have been journaling and trying to sort out my emotions and thoughts about my submission, my boundaries and limits.
Such as whether I can actually LIVE a 24/7 kind of thing or not. Fantasy, talking, action and then really LIVING it are very different things.
However, I have found that there is never any way I can go back to a 'normal/vanilla' relationship (whatever the hell that is *g*) but parts of this journey can be so overwhelming at times (ie: the mental mindfucks for one, and that DAMN ball gag, crop and X bar...got a love/hate relationship with all of them).
Besides, I tend to over analyze everything and take things way too seriously sometimes, which makes it difficult to just relax and enjoy the journey...but I'm working on it.
Coming here has been really helpful and I do thank all for being so supportive.

fix8ed

fix8ed?
please,
stay.

relax and be comfortable - and let all of us help you to take some time away from all that introspection and analysis.

we can help you just feel, and learn to just live in the moment - and you may never want to go back to thinking so hard about everything - ever again....

you like that idea, don't you?
wouldn't you like to risk learning to love that ball gag?
there's nothing separating living the reality and thinking about it.
all you have to do is just take that first step and never look back.
it's so easy.
so wonderful.
just let go - even for just a little.
take my hand?
yes.
take a deep breath and just relax.
trust yourself.
you know what you need.
you know the ecstasy that's waiting for you.
take the step.
yes.
doesn't that feel easy?
you've always wanted to, haven't you?
it's a safe to take another step.
it feels good, doesn't it.
enjoy it.
you enjoy feeling so relaxed, don't you?
yes.
come further.
there's a whole new life waiting for you
just a litle further....
ecstasy.
trust us.
stay a little longer...

trisha...
how absolutely beautiful!!!!
thank you so much for the kind words and the inspiration
fix8ed