TOPIC: Do Heterosexual Men Want Men?

Posted by Opalescent Dreams

A peeve of mine since I've started frequenting sites relating to BDSM are the number of personal ads in which men are purportedly seeking women, yet write their ads to seemingly pique men's interest instead.

Perhaps I'm just insufficiently pervy, but I'm more interested in finding out what makes a man tick, what makes him worthy of my time, his attitudes, and his interests than the dimensions of his equipment. This is especially pervasive with respect to the malesubs, but I've seen plenty of ads from dominant men that are indistinguishable aside from which end of the whip they want to be on.

I know that some women do like no-strings attached sex, and I'm not trying to be judgemental. However, when the main thrust of the ad is, "I want kinky sex and I want it my way" from a malesub, I don't think that he is very submissive. ;) What's with this "I have no limits" from men who say explicitly that they have no experience, anyway? How could they possibly *know* what their limits are?

Anyway, this is obviously looking at the question from a femmedomme perspective, but I welcome input from all.

As a heterosexual male submissive in slave training to a female, I would have difficulty turning complete control to another male as i would react aggressively to any challenge to my maleness. However, with a female, i can turn over total control without feeling threaten. Responding to your topic as described, i would believe that such a person was looking to control from the bottom for his own gratification and have difficulty in true transferring power.

Just to clarify, the subject was sarcastic. I don't think that they are actually looking for men, and they claim to be seeking women. It's just that the ads in question seem to be written to appeal to men's tastes, rather than to women's.

Opal,

For what it's worth, I know exactly what you mean. Men on-line often seem to write ads (and emails) which *they* find titillating, assuming that if they tell you their private fantasies, you will naturally become so overwhelmed by lust, you will immediately haul them off to your dungeon to ravish their quivering bodies.

Ah, if only female sexuality were so...elementary.

On the other hand...men off-line do that kind of thing too, no? I remember when I was in my 20s, I placed a personals ad in the local paper and received some surprisingly intimate responses. One memorable fellow enclosed a photo of himself dressed in cut-offs so short that the insoucient pink head of his penis peeked out from the hem. That third-eye effect was quite disconcerting. The first time I looked at it. ;-)

So I guess I was kind of prepared for some of the oddities I've encountered on-line...including malesubs who submit nude photos of themselves serving another dominatrix, thinking that will arouse you. Talk about cognitive dissonance. Put it in a vanilla context. Isn't that like sending a picture of yourself fucking your ex to someone you'd possibly like to date? I mean...what does that SAY?? To my mind, it says that one day, if I ever dommed the guy, a photo of our private scenes would be randomly forwarded to other women he wanted to sleep with.

How sexy.

What really slay me are the people who only send body parts, out of fear of being recognized. (Though I bet some wives could recognize their men by their cocks *fluttering eyelashes*.) But more than one lonely penis has popped up in my email over the years. If not for their entertainment value, I'd say those are the saddest, loneliest little penises around. ;-)

So..what *ARE* those antic males thinking when they sent us close-ups (or dare I say it...HEADSHOTS) of their erections? My guess is that they really could care LESS what women really think because they're completely focused on their dicks. (To put it bluntly.)

As for those tedious grocery lists of wants, well, I guess I can be a little more charitable about that. I think that a lot of malesubs really don't KNOW what to put in such an ad. They think they're supposed to list their likes, partly because of all those hokey "check-lists" going around the Internet, and all the cyberyakking about applications and petitions and contracts and so on.

Malesubs tend to base all their ideas about female dominance on the stuff they read in porn and fetish magazines and the PR that prodoms run on their sites. In fetish mags, they'll depict femdoms wearing collars and with their breasts and genitals hanging out; and we already know that a prodom's job is to please a client and thus get him to return. So you you end up with a lot of malesubs who truly have no concept of approaching a dominant woman with the common courtesy and civility they'd apply to other women.

The up-side to all this is that it does make it easier to spot the men who are interested in pleasing women.

They don't send you the nude photos until you ask for them. :-)

Glory

Howdy!
  I think what you describe can fall under two categories. First, I think men and women are socialized separately by society in allot of ways, and when they become sexually active, well, magic dust should just fall on us all and make us understand each other perfectly. I think this problem accounts from some of the behavior you folks are describing-with men exhibiting a great amount of cluelessness here- and also allot of bad behavior by both genders towards each other.
   Second, some people are just stupid and tasteless. Now, some of the men may just be trying to get to the point (no pun intended), but in a way they are doing you a favor. Anyone who makes it so clear what a moron they are by sending out a picture of their you know what just saved you allot of wasted time. When I was dating in my 20's, I came out from the kitchen to find my date rummaging through my income tax forms on my desk. It saved me allot of time.
   It is hard to enjoy power exchange with a crash test dummy. They are doing you a favor. W

Oooops! Obviously i missed the whole point. Forget my entry. i'll just duck as the cannon shells go over my head.

Winston,

But why does the "stupid and tasteless" ratio seem so much higher on the Internet? (This touches on another of my pet peeves, i.e., how people on-line so often are disgustingly rude and say things they'd never dream of saying in 3D.)

Getting back to Opal's points...why do you think het men write their ads in ways that could only appeal to other men--providing graphic descriptions or visuals that anyone who knows anything about women should know is just not going to work with women? If you wouldn't introduce yourself to a potential dominatrix in 3d by showing her your penis, why do it on the Internet? If you are seeking someone to serve, why would you offer her a script on what you expect her to do to/for you?

I ran an ad on alt.com and have to say that the number one questions men asked when responding was "how many toys do you have?"

Socialization may account for part of it. But something else happens on-line that goes beyond all that and turns men who are prolly fairly decent in real-life into narcissists and one-handed typers on-line.

Glory

p.s. karen/harold, no problem! :-) Keep on typing. I saw you left a question for me elsewhere & I'll try to find it and answer soon.

Glory,
  I agree with Winston, that there is just a lot of tastelessness out there. I wonder if it is just a male thing sometimes though. There are things about both sexes that tend to bother me. Like the men who think with their penises, there are the women who can't hold an intelligent conversation where make up, hollywood gossip, and who is doing who is not the subject of conversation. I just think that the internet has made it easier for shallowness to rear it's sunken shallow head. Men and women are brought up so differently, again agreeing with Winston. There really are two different ways of doing things and communicating there. It seems to take a lot for these men to get past their penises, and the women to get past their Barbies.
 I am bisexual, now serving a couple, a Master and a Mistress. Therefore, I have to be bilingual as well. What a challenge!! ;) I had posted an ad a while back on alt.com, so long ago I had almost forgot about it. I got shallow responses from women. But, I met my current Master and Mistress through alt.com. They sent a response to my ad, seemed very genuine,and it is a very good match.
  This seems to coincide with the thread on SSC, the players are setting the tempo a lot...Tops and bottoms, who are in it for sensation are seemingly more in number than the Dom/mes and SP8x1, who are in it for the psychological, long term reasons, rather than immediate gratification.
 I hope you find your needle in they haystack, and when you do, you could make him read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", and make sure he only speaks to you in Venusian.

<<that anyone who knows anything about women should know is just not going to work with women?>>

Bingo.

Okay, that's not the whole story, but it does cover a lot of bases. i think it's probably a common facet of human nature that we tend to think that the things that are important to us are the things that are important to other people. And as for the online vs. real-life differences, i imagine that has a lot to do with the fact that people can explore things behind anonymity that they can't in real life. In real life you'd have some real input as to what kind of behavior is desirable, and if you behaved inappropriately you'd be brought up short in no time. The internet has no such constraints.

Some people use the internet as a learning tool; others use it as a fantasy game. And in a fantasy, you get to make up the rules as you go along, eh?

Peace
firebaby

I agree that it is a good thing that they are setting off red flags from the start. I'm just curious and puzzled about their motivation.
Are they turned on by the idea of BDSM, but fearful that a woman would actually respond, so they deliberately do this?
Are they so clueless about what women want that they have turned to BDSM as their last hope for getting laid?
It isn't really that obnoxious, because it seems to be the standard. It's just annoying.

Re nytefog's: "This seems to coincide with the thread on SSC, the players are setting the tempo a lot...Tops and bottoms, who are in it for sensation are seemingly more in number than the SP1x10x1/mes and wannabes, who are in it for the psychological, long term reasons, rather than immediate gratification."

not to be tasteless, nytefog, but my immediate response was don't be too eager to knock sensation--- it can be the glue that helps holds together long term relationships. to quote a song by Trout Fishing in America: "We're not just making love, we're making amends"

i agree that there is very likely a strong connection between the ubiquitous checklists and the laundry list phenom.

many people are indeed clueless, i myself usually only notice someone flirting or trying to pick me up after the fact. this may be why i keep having relationships with assertive but obnoxious jerks, rather than the new age sensitive guys some think i should be looking for. me, i suspect i just need a real top, instead of wannabes. your mileage may vary :)

I wasn't going to even touch this thread but I just can't help myself. The fact is that an astonishingly large segment of the human population, at least the portion I've come into contact with, seem to be about as bright as a two watt lightbulb. Don't believe me? Spend an hour people-watching in any McDonalds and see if you don't change your mind.

I recently placed an ad on alt.com myself. Being more or less uncomfortable with the whole idea of putting out a shingle, I decided to do some market research first by checking out other ads from heterosexual, dominant males. OMG!!!! I've never seen so many pictures of dicks in my life.

It didn't take long to figure out. The reason these guys offer pictures of their dicks is because they ARE dicks. What you see is precisely what you get.

That these idiots seem to be more abundant on the internet is, in my humble opinion, because they feel safe enough (hiding behind their keyboard and apparent anonymity) that they can comfortably reveal themselves for the assholes they really are. In real life, they know full well they would never get away with that kind of crap. So they hide it.

What an educational experience that whole ad thing was! I wrote and posted an ad based on what I felt, got several replies, and have since met a lovely young woman who seems (so far) to be very delightful. I did not post a picture of my pecker, she did not reply with a photo of her twat (as some women did). If I've learned nothing else, it's that idiotic behavior isn't bound by gender.

**It didn't take long to figure out. The reason these guys offer pictures of their dicks is because they ARE dicks. What you see is precisely what you get. **

And they're not even BIG dicks! (siiiigh) ;-)

Thanks for jumping in, Craig. I was wondering if any men might contribute some of their own sad tales of women who sent unsolicited pix of their pussies. Any other comments on where femsubs (or femdoms) go wrong when advertising for partners on-line?

I'm thinking that this thread Opal started might turn into a good primer for us all on WHAT NOT TO DO when you're looking for a compatible BDSM partner on-line!

xx,

Glory

Hi All!
 First, Nytefog- bilingual! Good one! Best laugh of the day for me-thanks!
  I agree with Nytefog and Firebaby that the internet allows the lowest common denominator greater visability. Add the fact that they feel they are not accountable since they can't be identified, and we get to see even more of the lowest common behavior- from all genders.
  OK, Glory, I will try to take a shot at this. First, I might guess that the stupid ratio has gone up from when you started your chatroom on Compuserve. Back then, you had to know something to work a computer and be online. Now anyone who wants it has access. I think there have always been allot of rude people- more of them are online now!
  Glory, the behavior you describe to me makes me cringe. I find it hard to imagine the private part pics-perhaps it is a primitive way to deal with their fear of their interest in BDSM-and perhaps women in general. And the internet is a WWW based bathroom wall. Again, I think it is a great sign to avoid them. As far as the toy fixation- allot of guys are fixated more on their toys and tools than what they do with them. Plus, I notice in general guys need to fixate on an activity as a means to let their guard down. They probably feel the toy talk is a great, non-threatening way to begin. Allot of guys might think nothing of spending more than 100 bucks to play golf with a groups of folks for a day-ask them get together to just talk for an hour and the response would likely be disbelief.
   I think showing vulnerability is the number one taboo that men are brought up with. To surrender control goes against that, and is bound to bring out odd behavior I guess. Toy talk, scripts, (and maybe the even odder stuff) might be a way for men to deal with that. Sorry ODreams- I have a difficult job imagining motivations beyond this.
   What I think is saddest is that checklists and scripts and the like seem intent at destroying mystery.
There seems to be so little magic left in life anymore, and to try to squeeze the last bit of it out of sensuality is just plain sad. To make it vulgar is even worse.
   Or something like that :)
   Take care all - and play well. W

I was browsing about on another site, and noticed a name which drew my interest. When I read his profile, he turned out to be dominant, but I decided to ask him to talk anyway. Right now, I'm not interested in finding a partner, but am interested in philosophizing and sharing perspectives about BDSM. We had a very enjoyable conversation. Anyway, he said that many women write profiles that are written to attract other women. Being romantic is fine, but he felt that they were a bit *too* mushy.

I agree wholeheartedly that most ads are poorly written. I was careful to read what other had written and then wrote my own that was completely unlike the rest. It started with "I am seeking that rare woman who knows who and what she is". No talk of "Me master, you slave, 14 inch cocks or the rest of the drivel. I got inundated with responses, met some wonderful women, some of whom I still see years later, and one of whom is now my submissive.

I just figure all the idiots are working overtime to make me look better and best part is I don't even have to tip them.

The thing I find most odd is I don't think I have ever met a woman whos ad I responded to, but like I said, I have always gotten lots of responses from my ad. Is this just me, or does it resonate with anyone else?

Michael

Michael, I think that the reason you don't see many good ads is that most people are not good writers. I know the process that one has to follow when writing something: First jot your ideas down. Then read it, edit it, read, edit, rewrite it, edit some more, and throw the whole thing out and start again once I have a good idea of what I'm really trying to say. Rinse and repeat until you're sick of writing about it. Professionals may develope a more sussinct process, but most ads aren't written by professionals.

Unfortunately, the reason you find so many obnoxious people out there is that the world is full of stupid people. I came to grips with that as a teen, and though it is sad, I no longer marvel at what people are NOT capable of.

As to the main thread of reflection here, I'd have to say that most men just don't have the capacity to put themselves in a woman's head. Not even a little bit. I have been told that I'm quite in touch with my so-called femininity, and I constantly struggle to gain a perspective outside of my own mind. Case in point: despite the fact that I know that my wife needs to have a foot-hold of familiarity to learn what kind of dom she wants to be, and that she has been and is currently a performer, it never occured to me that I might help her come up with a "character" through which she could act out my fantasies and develope her own. We're just now getting to that point, and it's amazing how much better she's understanding what I need. On the flip side, I think I'm really beginning to understand just how to satisfy her, to serve her in a way that makes her feel happy, loved and dominant.

So you see, even enlightened men can be bone-headed. Just take that to the Nth degree of self-centered, male-centric thinking, and it's really a wonder that anyone at all posts an ad that might attract a woman.

In my psych 101-ish class my Freshman year of college, I learned about stages of epathic maturity (probably has a proper name, but hey, that was about 12 years ago, give a geek a break!). First, you aren't aware that other people have feelings. Then when you begin to understand that, you assume that what you like/dislike is what others must like or dislike. After that, you may begin to understand that what makes one person happy (being spanked), can be entirely different from what someone else might like (to spank someone else). If a man doesn't advance beyond the first stange, he's called a sociopath. Growing into the second stage makes him a typical male.

"If a man doesn't advance beyond the first strange, he's called a sociopath. Growing into the second stage makes him a typical male."

Another great Quip that is also true.

And now to stick
both of my feet in my mouth" ...........
 
"you assume that what you like/dislike is what others must like or dislike."
This is not just a male trait ...... it is a human trait and unfortunately the basis, IMHO, for the mountain of misunderstandings and pain that seems to be abundant.

But getting back to the male for a minute ........ It is the females that are the mothers of these males .... it is the mothers who play a very important part in the emotional development of the male ........ and it seems that we are reaping the rewards of the "stero-typing" of the male population.

Again ... "what comes first the chicken or the egg?"

The seventies brought the "ME" concept as well as the feminist movement. IMHO ..... when the focus is on "ME" first and the idea of universal "equality" between the sexes ......... how in the world can either the female or the male be anything but defensive?

One can not learn others if the focus is always on "ME" ..... and one can not appreciate and respect the differences between males and females if they have to first defend their right to be.

Storm