Hi Glory and Everyone else........

I was going to add this to the MINDFUCK thread but decided that since i had no idea how long this was going to end up being ...... i would just do my own topic.

Way back in the beginning of October i was a mess. i had just had a MAJOR MINDFUCKING experience. I had no idea that was what it had been ..... but the result was not good. It was not good because it was not done to enhance a damn thing ... it was done for very selfish reason by a Dominant who talks a fantastic story but lives a rather large lie in his encounters with submissives. As i look back at that time i now understand why his preference is Novice submissives.
We are just soooooooooo easy to fuck with.

I was fortunate beyond words to have stumbled across the old Come Hither Message Board. My shyness paled in comparison to how that one scening experience had left me emotionally.

My insecurities were raging as i posted the experience on the board, and yes it can be revisited when i finally get that Archives finished. Anyway ..... Glory and the poster of that board literally saved me from myself. I was so very close to just giving up on everything. It was as though I was dropped in the middle of the Ocean and left to survive for as long as i could stay afloat. I was drowning, or at least that is what it felt like when i wrote my first words.
I start this topic the way i have because this adventure with "The Art of the Mindfuck" has actually been one of the best positive reinforcement experiences that i have had.

I know ..... you are all shaking your heads wondering if i have "lost it." Actually i have never been better. My entire life has been "fighting" my own battles. Facing some unimaginable "put downs" .... "criticisms" ..... "identity crisis's" .... "self esteem issues" ..... and "vicious attacks on the person that i am." The most recent one focused on my involvement in this lifestyle, my grandsons, and a determined group of people who wanted nothing better than to destroy me personally, professionally and socially.

I have stood alone my entire life ....... with not my parents or my family to stand up and say a word in my behalf. It was never more evident then in the past two years. What happens when this is a way of life .... self confidence dwindles a bit each year until the insecurities about one’s worth are paramount. I have said more times than i can remember that this conflict between the intellect and the emotions is a constant with me. Everything i see where others are concerned, that is as long as it does not involve mw, is always very clear. When i am suddenly in the picture ...... those same views just do not seem to apply.

TO THIS BOARD .............

You all have made me feel the safest i have ever felt emotionally. You have all shown me that i now have people ....... friends who actually care about me and are willing to come to my defense ........ you have shown me that the feelings and emotions that i have been ignoring with regard to what i considered inappropriate ways for others to treat me is in fact ... inappropriate ....... that many of my gut feelings about myself and my worth must be in error because others felt me worthy of defending my being publicly treated unjustly.

TO LAWRENCE..........

Your post gave me the first positive reinforcement that i can ever remember getting from someone who has never met me that related directly to something that i was involved in. You did want you did to make light of what i can only assume you felt was a bit “hurtful”. Quite a diplomat you are. i read that post of yours and thought ........... ummmmmm maybe i am over reacting ....... maybe i am just jumping to a conclusion that i have done something wrong. Thank you ....... thank you ...... thank you,

TO STEEL.........

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for standing up for me. When i read your words i could not stop the tears from flowing. All at once i started to feel that maybe ........ just maybe i had some worth after all. The past can be a terrible thing to overcome. The emotional scars are usually always deep and though they may appear to fade on the outside ...... they remain on the inside. i suffer from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) ........ a result of the years in the hospital. You have helped me to see how my perception of things that happen to me ...... meant innocently perhaps ....... can tossed me immediately into that world again. How every insecurity about who i am and my worth can be brought to the surface with just a few words.

TO KATE ............

Thank you, for you told me directly that is was OK for me to feel uncomfortable with what was happening and that i was not alone in thinking that this was not what i wanted, You also showed me a side to this verbal exchange that i would have seen if it were happening to another, but because it was happening to me ....... i was blinded ...... again by my past and my insecurities. You allowed me to see that i can think that something is not :right” where i am concerned and have the support of others seeing it the same way.

TO JUSTIN........

i have struggled with just what is appropriate behavior for a submissive when engaging in conversations with a Dominant ....... be it for casual conversation or an intro into a possible relationship of sorts.

“However, when one attempts to manipulate someone else’s mind for a purpose outside of what is considered to be SSC, then that person is not attempting to mindfuck their partner, simply to fuck them.”

i have been fucked all my life .......... and the MINKFUCK game in the Nilla world has done a number on me. You have helped immensely in that area,

You did me a great honor Justin with this part of your post .........

“Storm, you own no one ANYTHING that they have not earned, with YOU being the judge of whether it is earned or not, and if so, YOU are entitled to decide (and this is certainly outside a collar) what the "prize" is for having earned it. The only person here who is deserving of an apology is Storm”

It has always been expected that i was the one to apologize ........ for it was always been conveyed that i was the one that was wrong.

TO FIREBABY..........

Thank you for your observations as to the maturity of the exchanges ......... a lesson to be learned by all. Confused ....... well believe me i was also.

TO LACE.........

Now please tell me what all of that fluttering is about <g>

TO TOURMALINE..........

Thank you ......... I needed to be reminded of the path.

Any level of TPE can only be attained by slow and
careful sculpting of a relationship where the
partners have already acquired deep trust,
understanding and knowledge of each other and
themselves - sometimes a stressful and painful
process."

TO NIGHT .............

Thank you for beginning this learning experience that i was a part of.

I do hope that your SMARTASS reputation does not suffer too much <G>

Yes, you provided me with an excellent example of how the MINDFUCK works. That i did not realize that you were “playing at” this exercise is an example of what years of having ones mind FUCKED with does.

I have to tell you that my first reactions to the last few posts of yours was to ask myself what was going on.

When i sent you that private post, i did so because i did not want to be obvious to the board should you reject my request to converse. Rejection is something that has been the mainstay of most of my interactions because my shyness often comes across as snobbish and not timid.

“My dear Storm,
It is not up to you to presume when, how, or even why you should apologize to me. When I want you to
apologize, I will tell you so. I will also tell you HOW I want you to apologize, but you will have show proper humility to me before I will grant you that privilege. Understood?”

You hit a trigger that whisk me back in time to when i learned NOT to ask for anything. At the time i read that post i was not really aware of why i was feeling this chilling sort of anxiety and desperation.

I was nowhere near ready for the next one..............

“I would be glad to converse with you on mindfucking or any other aspect of BDSM. If you want me to mentor you in any way, though, there will be some rules that you must follow at all times.“

i smiled as i read the first line, but as i moved to the second ...... i wanted the earth to open up and swallow me. i searched my mind for when i asked to be mentored. What made it worse was that i thought ......... my God, everyone on line is going to think i am this really classless submissive. As i read on my disbelief turned to a bit of anger as I allowed myself to question “Just who the hell you thought you were” I wanted to immediately post a reply that you had let you know in no uncertain terms that i thought you out of line.

Did I do that .......... No. What i did was copy all of your posts where you and i had exchanged any comments ......... read them all at least five times ....... anguished over “WHAT I HAD DONE” to deserve the reaction from you that stared back at me from my computer screen.

By the time that i got to the end where you wrote ........

“I think these rules are simple and fair. If you wish to continue, you must say so quickly. I bore easily.

i had made up my mind that i best just keep to myself and forget posting anything at all. Had it not been for NASTYKATE’s response indicating that she was enjoying this thread and that ........ “might learn a ton about myself by just observing” i decided will maybe this would be something of a learning experience for more than just me ........... so i posted the response that i thought indicated that i wanted talk but not be mentored.

Your next post just did it. As i read the following ............ i was frozen in place and flipping front wanting to die and wanting to run.

“A submissive must always be aware of their place. Talking with a submissive like a buddy only undermines the dynamics of a dominant/submissive relationship. If they are truely submissive and not just acting the part, they should show submission. Therefore, proper form must be used at all times.”

Again another trigger that whisked me again back into the past. i was “kept in line” when i was younger in the hospital by being taught “MY PLACE” and that has stayed with me. All of a sudden that feeling was there ........ emotions that were tainted by confusion, fear, and a feeling of worthlessness.

i spent a few days wondering what i should do .... reading and re reading all that you and i posted ..... wondering how i could get it SO WRONG yet again.

i tell you all of this NIGHT because it exemplifies what has bothered me about this lifestyle. To me, it seemed as though i had missed something really important about the “DO’S and DON’TS” of what was proper and acceptable. I had been trying to figure out what was a miss and had recently decided that my definitions of words seemed to be from a book that no one else was using.

All being said and DONE ........ this is another experience that i would not change no matter how out of step i felt throughout this thread. You may not be aware of it but you gave me the opportunity to learn something in a safe environment.

Your final posting was what helped me the most.................

“I was having a little bit of fun while trying to make a point.”

“I'm afraid that I hadn't taken into account just how shy Storm is. For that, I sincerely and humbly apologize to her, it was never my intention to make her feel uncomfortable.”

“Just relax and be yourself.”

i can not remember a time when someone has actually told me to “be myself” and at the same time admit and apologize because they had not really taken a good look at me before making “an example” of me to make a point. It has been the tactic of most who i have been close to ...... to remind me “Of my place” ......... “humiliate me in front of others” ......... “ and have no concern what so ever for my feelings”

This type of reinforcement serves only to intensify my feelings of insecurity and self hate.

In a matter of minutes i could laugh at this next statement and enjoy it for what it was ....... “You being a SMARTASS.:

“However, you were very tardy in responding to my last posting and you simply must be punished for it. So, tonight, no fruit cup!”

A new lease on life is what i have. The days before your last post were agony Night ............ but in the end ......... and experience that i feel so very fortunate to have had. I truly have found my way back home. This lifestyle ........ and each and every one of you have given me something that i really cannot find the words to express.......

And to you GLORY............

What can i say but thank you .......... for the message board ....... for your open mindedness ....... your support........ for your standards and values .......... oh and also for the evil .... and often sinister humor or yours. You have created an environment that is safe ..... informative ...... a balance of seriousness and humor ....... It is a Community that i am so very glad to be a part of.

Storm

Now don't make me puddle up. My cold, sinister heart couldn't take it. :-)

SMOOOOOCH!

<<<<big huge hugs and kisses>>>>>

I sincerely saw what Night was writing/saying in a different aspect but as I read what he wrote didnt find anything wrong other then the public exposure of it all - I had to read it as if I was you Storm - and then it hit me just how out of context this whole scene of his was for somebody like yourself. This is where the

1. There is no textbook rules to go by on how to treat a submissive while training her or how to get her to the level of submission she needs to be for completeness in her chosen lifestyle.....

2. There is no textbook rules for a submissive to behave, each takes each action or reaction differently, we are such a complex bunch of people us submissives, I truly do not know how the WONDERFUL Doms out there (not the wanna be selfish pricks/bitches who have no clue) do it, I mean how on this earth do you guys/gals deal with our high maitnenace both physical and emotional? I have tremendous respect for those who earn it and am thankful beyond all the beauty in the world for your love and patience in guiding us through this eternal search.

I find my submission is never ending, I mean will I ever find the plataeu where I say I am complete? I sincerely doubt it, the journey continues and the ecstasy reaches higher levels.

<<<how on this earth do you guys/gals deal with our high maitnenace both physical and emotional>>>

Wearily.

:-)

TO NIGHT ..........

This is just for you. Now that you have been tested..... I think that i will allow you to mentor me <eg>

Storm

Seriously Night ....... i tend to be so self critical that i don't have much fun ........ ummmm guess that uis because i have never learned how.

Thanks bunches for showing me the path. i finally think that i might just feel safe enough here to stick my toe in the water ....... unless

Hey Tourmaline ...... Does your Master have any goodies in that shop of his to keep me from running away LOL

Storm

Love ya all

Dear All,

Just an observation...

As much as I enjoy chat, message boards, forums, ML etc., I've noticed over and over -- in Italy and in America-- that subtle irony or smart-assediness :-) is almost always misinterpreted and taken literally.

Perhaps it's because it's not limited to a one-on-one exchange but is shared collectively...in any case, it just doesn't seem to "translate" well within a written-only, group format.

Too bad, 'cuz it's fun.. but there it is.

Like I said, just an observation.

Deborah

Storm,

Welcome back to Kansas. Hope the Munchkins didn't lose your luggage.

I must say that your recent post left me speechless... for almost five seconds. Trust me, that's something of a record.

Like many stories this one has been circular. In the begining, I told you that mindfucking was just trickery. Take away the Great and Powerful Oz's smoke and mirrors and he's just a man. You didn't seem to want to accept this. I felt it was important that you did. Ignorance may be bliss in many parts of life, but in romantic relationships (especially BDSM ones) it can be fatal. Some Doms tear down their sub's ego with the greater purpose of rebuilding them into happier people, and some Doms just simply tear down.

You sound like a very good and sincere woman and I'm sure that one day you will make some Master proud to have you as his submissive. However, you must always remember that a Master is still just a man. I can only hope that you will apreciate him all the more for this. Also, you must remember that any control you give him over you is control you are free to take away if he abuses his position.

Isn't it intriguing, that on a BBS devoted to some very extreme and esoteric forms of sexuality, the simple written request for someone to address another by a title and act in a specific way should cause so much controversy? This is the power of mindfucking.

The bonds created in our minds are much stronger than any chains. The verbal lashings given us by people who are supposed to love us hurt more than any whip. And the limits imposed on us by ourselves are more restrictive then those placed on us by any Dominant.

It appears that you have learned your lesson well. Better than I could have planned. For this, you will be rewarded. Please imagine my giving you a single, perfect red rose.

Also, I would be honored to mentor you. My next post to you will be privately, through your e-mail.

Nightheron

Midear Storm-

>>>Thank you ....... thank you ...... thank you,<<<

<grin> de nada, chica. And as for never having met you, consider it the equavlant of a formal introduction<s>.

    I am glad to see that this has turned into an educational experiance for all involved. As someone who came online out of the scene (as opposed to the more prevelent to the scene out of the online), I could never take that sort of behavior seriously, and it actually offends me at times.

    This stuff touches on such dark and strange places, deep within us, that it is sometimes too easy to twist it to damaging, selfish ends. It is even, at times, a hard thing to draw the line between flirtation and manipulation. There are too many 'stupid dom tricks' that can really leave someone hurt (in a bad way<g>) if invoked in the wrong context.

    So I dropped into the thread, risking a faux paus, not so much of a desire to protect you, but rather, as a desire to protect the 'my' scene (of course, if you did need it, 'I got your back'<g>).

    As I have said before, I don't believe in one cohesive unified scene, but rather a agregate of many small scenes (sometimes I wonder if they aren't all as small as one skull's diameter), and my reason for harping on it so is that, while I think everyone is entitled to their own scene, I don't always want it associtated with mine.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

PS to Kate- *thank you*, for recognising that it's tough on top<g>. It's nice to know that it's appreciated -L.

<<<nodding head in agreement and acknowledgement of Glory and Lawrence's notes with a wicked grin and wink>>>> (Glory knows what my smile looks like so I know shes grinning as well, its infectious)

i wish you peace, and fulfilment...

always, is;
trisha

(i was claimed so completely all of yesterday by Her that i can still barely type - She is at a Rescue meeting, till around midnight - write me anytime you want...)

Storm,
  Good to see you are doing okay. =)

 Night,
   I must admit you had me going too...an early April fool.

 Glory,
   For some reason I have gotten the impression that the only thing on you that would be weary because of a subbie is your arm from overuse. >8O

  Trisha,
    I love the way you say you were claimed by her. You make it truly sound like so much fun. =)

    diana

Storm,
      You are always, more than welcome. :) I am glad everything came out as it did.

Justin

Hi all ........

I have been thinking ........ ummmmmmm now isn't that something. Anyway ........ just so that no one is waiting to learn about mentoring on line or on this board ....... I need to let you know that being Mentor is not in my future ... at least for the time being.

Getting that cleared up, I need to clarify something that I had posted before under SSC.

What happened between Night and I is something like I was referring to when I ask if SSC applied outside of a scene.

I asked that question because I guess that in some ways I live in a fantasy world. You know the kind where you wish and it is so. What I mean is that I do see people as real and human ....... but I guess that because so much of the emphasis is put on Honesty ... trust .... openness ..... communication and acceptance, I let the fact that above all we are all still human. We make mistakes .. errors in judgment ..... open our mouths or put our fingers to the keyboard often times without considering just exactly where another is in the journey and their self truths.

I do understand that Night meant no harm, but I also want to point out that in this environment of safe discussion between and among Dominants and submissives, we do not all think alike, react alike or believe alike.

There is one thing about this lifestyle that is apparent. That is that most of the people who are seriously involved have taken much time and effort to not only get in touch with their true selves but to also look beyond the superficial first impression and exterior of a person.

There are certain like characteristics that hold true for Dominants as well as for submissives and although we are all individuals ..... those characteristics need to be considered.

Ok having thought that through perhaps I need to add that there are also certain perceptions that are held by Dominants about submissives and submissives about Dominants.

I have realized that, in part , is what played into my reaction. But as I said before ..... it was a wonderful learning experience for me.

Storm

Perceptions are not truth, because then those who are heavily into BDSM and not D/s or those who are into the D/s and not BDSM or those who are into both would not be as they are, individuals, as we all are in this lifestyle. Some are this and some are that and some are a wide array of interesting things, there is not one single thing we all enjoy or fetish we partake in, we are Accepting of Kinky love and the freedom to be anything/anyone we want - well, thats how I see it anyway. I hate the word perception with this lifestyle, perception is what causes others to label you and that is not at all who you are Storm, or anybody who is real - and you are real storm, not a dreamer, and your day is coming. I suppose this is my answer to your questions to the subs as well, I just dont respond to perception, its irrelevent to me.